S6 Ep 1 Full Podcast
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Tom Kaden: Welcome back to the Someone To Tell It To Podcast. So delightful to have you with us here as we embark on a new season together. And we're looking forward to what Season Six is gonna bring of our podcast. We are delighted by this conversation that we just had with Sonny today. Sonny's an activist, a musician.
And has so many meaningful things to say in our conversation together, particularly around seeing the divine in every human being. It's a message that we convey all the time here at Someone to Tell It To, and so we're grateful to have you with us in today's conversation.
Michael Gingerich: We often don't get to meet our, our guests.
In person though, much of what we do if people are, are scattered around the country and and around the world. But we did have the privilege, well, earlier this year of meeting Sonny in person where we shared a speaking engagement together at Lehigh University, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And it was, it was so nice to be able to talk with someone whom we, whom we have met and, and whom we got to know and, and respect right away.
Or who he is and for what he believes, for the values that he has, the values that we share together. So we hope you will enjoy this conversation with Sonny today. So Sonny Singh has over two decades of experience facilitating workshops and giving talks. On anti-oppression, racial equity, and social justice issues.
His approach centers on Reflection, honest Dialogue and Critical systematic Analysis is also a member of the training teams at the Center for Racial Justice in Education and Race Forward. Sonny is also, and you'll hear more about this, a musician and an original member of Brooklyn based. Bangra Brass band, red Barat.
In 2022, he released his first solo album entitled Chardi Kala, the Sikh Concept of Revolutionary Eternal Optimism. Musically, his project embodies the many spiritual, political and aesthetic elements that have shaped him and his life, his live band, he writes, provides listeners with an experience of both introspective, reflection and fervent urgency.
Sonny currently lives in Brooklyn and New York, and as you'll hear, we had the privilege, as you have heard, we've had the privilege of meeting him earlier this year when we were speakers together at a conference at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. We enjoyed getting to meet him there and to grow to know him, and we greatly respect the work that he does.
Sonny, welcome to the Someone to Tell To Podcast we, it's so nice to see you again, and we're so grateful that you could join us today.
Sonny Singh: Thank you for having me. It's a, it's a pleasure to be here.
Michael Gingerich: We want to ask you the question that we, this season especially, have been asking all of our guests, and we just wanna know, would you tell us about yourself?
Sonny Singh: Sure. Big, big question. A lot of, a lot of ways to, to approach it. So I'm, I'm gonna just go sort of off the top of my head how I often introduce myself to, to folks when I'm running a workshop or, or something, something of the sort. But I am a Brooklyn based musician and an educator. I'm an activist.
I am, I'm someone who has centered my life around struggles for social and economic justice. That is kind of the, those principles are what are what drive me and orient me in, in the world. In, in everything that I do including my music and I grew up in, in Charlotte, North Carolina. I'm the, the child of immigrants.
I am a turban wearing Sikh. And the Sikh faith is, is Is something that, that is, is pretty central to my, to my life and my sort of philosophy and the way that I see the world. And, and that really goes hand in hand with the principles of, of, of social justice that I, that I aim to, to center my life around.
And yeah, I've been, I've been living in New York City for, for nearly 20 years. I. Doing a mix of things, a whole lot of music. I tour quite a bit performing around the US and and beyond. And I also spend a good amount of time these days facilitating workshops, trainings sort of educational experiences sort of building skills analysis, knowledge around racial justice, around anti-oppression, around other forms of, of social justice to hopefully inspire folks to, to, to transform our world for, for the better. And I tried to weave those themes into my music as, as well.
Tom Kaden: We know a lot of people are not largely familiar with the Sikh faith.
In fact, we learned a lot from your presentation at Lehigh University together earlier this year. We wondered if you would just describe the tenets and the beliefs of your faith.
Sonny Singh: Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's, it is, it is surprising that I think. Sikh are still a largely not understood or, or almost invisible community in, in the United States, despite the fact that we've been in the US for, for over a hundred years.
And, and Sikhism is actually the fifth largest world religion. So there's, there's quite, there's quite a few of us in, in the world. And and, and the core is really this idea of, of oneness. It's the first, the first words in the six scriptures, the guru Grand Sibe. And what that means is this one divine force this, this one unifying force of love that that connects all of us.
And so. The core, the core idea in Sikhi is if the divine is in you and the divine is in, in you, and the divine is in that person down the street and the divine is in my neighbor, then, then I have to do everything in my power to ensure that each of those people who the divine is, which is all people are not exploited or not mistreated are not experiencing violence, right, are not experiencing dehumanization.
And, and for us as Sikhs, that's not just Ideal to live by. It. It's a, it's a call to action, right? So in, in the Sikh faith there's not sort of this idea of equity and justice is not just sort of like a theoretical or, or theological thing. It's a, it's a, it's a mandate to act. And so to fight for justice, to fight for the dignity of all of all human beings is an act of worship in, in the Sikh community.
So that, that is a, a, a very core kind of principle or principles in, in the Sikh faith, and certainly one that, that inspires me greatly. The, the faith began in the region of Punjab, which is in which is in India and Pakistan now, that that border didn't used to be there. And it's a relatively new world religion, if you wanna call it that.
You know, the, the, the first guru and, and founder of the Sikh Faith Guru Nanak was born in 1469 in, in Punjab. So relatively, relatively new compared to many of the other world religions and, and really the, it, it came about in an environment where there was so much hierarchy based on the caste system, based on sexism, based on religious intolerance, right?
And, and Guru Nanak and, and those who came to be known as Sikhs. And Sikh by the way, means learner. It, it comes literally from the Punjabi word, sikhna which which means to learn. So a Sikh is one who's in a constant state of, of learning and you know, looking around at the world, seeing all these forms of hierarchy and oppression most of which were justified through religion, right?
The caste system is an ancient form of hierarchy and subjugation that's still really insidious in, in South Asian society and certainly was in the 14 and 15 hundreds, right? And, and so Sikhism. Was an anti caste revolution in, in many ways, right? It was an attempt to, to overthrow this form of subjugation through, through religion.
And, and to uplift this idea of oneness that I was speaking about a Ik Onkar, right? So, At many points in Sikh history Sikhs have literally fought you know, taking up arms for, for justice and freedom as well when all other means to justice and freedom had, had failed. And, and, and so I. Yeah, these, these are, some of, these are some of the core principles.
You know, the Sikh diaspora all over the world. Now, most of us trace our ancestry to Punjab. So most Sikh are Punjabi. But not all punjabis are Sikh, right? Punjab punjabis can be lots of different religions or, or no religions as well. And, and yeah, that, that's like a little, a little taste for you and, and certainly happy to ask any follow up questions.
Michael Gingerich: Well, first we appreciate that very much and we, Very much believe and love the, the beauty of the understanding that the divine is in everyone and that, and, and is all around us. I think that's, that is so important and, and we believe very much the same thing that, and, you know, our, our tenants, even our organization, Someone To Tell It To is, is about the worth of everyone and the, and, and the goodness that is that everyone has something to offer and something of value. Which we, we know, we all know that there are many, seemingly too many in the world who don't necessarily believe that, or cer or at least don't act as if they believe that. One of the things that you said about what, what Sikh means, and it comes, you know, it's about learning.
Tell us. But how you go about that learning and what, what are the things that you are trying to learn and discern as you continue to grow in life and in and, and in and in the work you do?
Sonny Singh: I mean, so, so much to, to me it's like, it, it's like a call to, to, to humility, right? I think, I think religion, So often plays a negative role in our society and, and, and societies around the world, right?
Where there's this sort of arrogance and self-righteousness to it because, oh, I have the truth. You know, I'm, I'm doing air quotes podcast listeners can't see that, right? Like, I, yeah, I have, I have a monopoly on the truth or my, my religion or my prophets have a monopoly on the truth. And, and to be in to a approach life and to approach spirituality and to approach religion from a stance of, of learning rather than having the final answer already to me is something that is, is deeply inspiring, right?
It's a, it's a call to, to humility. It's a call to stay grounded. It's a call to always be thinking critically and, and, and not necessarily proselytizing, right? But instead we're learning together. We're growing together, we're moving towards something bigger than ourselves together. And, and I won't say, you know, I'm not gonna say all Sikhs are always embodying this principle, right?
Like, just like every other religious community, there's plenty of dogma insidious in our community. Plenty of arrogance insidious in our community. Even plenty of like, Past oppression in our community, which is highly ironic given, given the roots of, of the Sikh faith. Right? Which was again, an anti caste movement.
So, you know, unfortunately these, these various sort of I'm gonna pause for a minute for that siren. Un unfortunately, these various sort of. Hypocrisies and and manifestations of sort of arrogance or holier than thou, and in a literal sense I think have infected all of our communities.
And, and, and that call to learning is, is a reminder for me to, to, to make sure I'm, I'm, I'm not trying to get up on that, but I'm not, I'm not teetering towards being up on a high horse, my myself, right? Whether it's about spirituality, whether it's about social justice, whether it's about really, really anything that I, that I care about a lot, right?
That I'm always positioning myself in, in a place of learning. And you know, as someone who does a lot of facilitation and, and training work I, I think that really resonates with this idea of popular education. You know, a, a term that. That's been used in a lot of different ways, but in many ways traces some of its roots to Brazilian educator and sort of liberation theologian, Paolo Freire in, in Brazil, where, you know, he had this idea that it's, you're not just a teacher, you're a teacher student.
Students are not just students, they're student teachers. Right. And learning is a, is a two-way process. And so I'm, I'm always trying to learn how to really embody that in, in everything I do. Whether it's my, my facilitation and training work, or whether it is just the way that I, that I walk through the world in, in terms of what else I'm trying to learn, I think, I think so much.
I think what what keeps me up at night is just like, how do we. Continue moving the needle towards towards justice and liberation in our, in our society, right? And, and how can I use my, my time most effectively in to, to to, to move that needle in, in the direction that, that we know it needs to move, right?
To, to really embody this idea of, of oneness because so many things in our society are, are pushing against that. So that, that keeps me up at night in terms of learning. From a musical standpoint, you know, I, I, I've been a, I've been a so-called professional musician for a, a really long time now and, and still feel like an amateur in so many ways, right?
So I always wanna be deepening my craft at playing the trumpet, at singing and at, at songwriting, and, and trying to capture the, the emotions that I wanna capture in my music. So, learn, you know, learning is A huge, hugely important part of of life. And this is a great reminder that it's literally built into, built into what my community is called 'cause sometimes I honestly forget that.
Tom Kaden: Hmm. Yeah. I'm reminded of a phrase that we, we've used here at Someone To Tell It To often is just everyone that we meet with knows something that we don't. And if we approach everybody that way, to your point earlier about seeing the spark of the divine in everyone.
We're getting a fuller glimpse of the divine if we come into every interaction with an open mind and an open heart to learn.
Sonny Singh: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Tom Kaden: So Sonny, tell us a little bit more about what does it look like on any given day to live out your faith?
Sonny Singh: Yeah, I mean, I, I think largely it's what, it's what I'm already talking about, right?
For me, the, the, the most important practices are, are, I mean, actually mirroring what you just said, right? Like really trying to live into seeing the divine in all and, and thus orienting my life and my work in a way that, that reflects that. And that's, and that is not just one thing, right? That can look like any profession really. It can look like so many different lifestyles that are lived in that way. And, and for me, as you know, as we've discussed that, that looks like orienting a lot of my work around, you know, how to really work towards. Towards social justice and, and, and liberation for, for all people.
You know, other, other ways that, you know, that I can comment on your, your listeners can't, can't see what I look like. You know, in the Sikh community many devout Sikhs don't cut our hair. And many of us wear turbans. And so those are sort of like daily commitments. I I, I make to, to being a Sikh and I, and I have made my whole life.
And, and the idea there is Because of this commitment to justice and liberation. There's this the, the Sikh identity is something that is really important in our community, right? Being recognizable as a Sikh is thus being recognizable as someone who's gonna have your back if you need, if you need support, right?
That someone who is gonna fight for justice of all kinds. When you see someone with Unshorn hair, Someone wearing a turban you know, okay. That that's someone who, who believes in, in our struggles for, for respect and justice and dignity. And so that, that's, that's an important sort of daily commitment that I, that I embody as As a Sikh and my musical practice is deeply related to my, my spirituality and, and being a Sikh as well.
My, my first musical outlet as a child was playing Sikh devotional music kirtan and and I largely left it behind as a child until a couple of years ago. And and. A couple years ago I started kind of re-exploring some of, some of these devotional songs I learned as a kid. And it kind of gave birth to a new musical project.
And I released my first album of this project last year under my own name. And and so that's been just a really beautiful and exciting thing for me to. To be approaching Sikh devotional music at this point in my life as again, a so-called professional musician and, and bringing this wisdom and beauty to audiences outside of our community.
And and, and just digging deeper into the meaning of the, so the, the Sikh scriptures are all written in poetry by Sikh gurus, by Sufi saints, by Bhakti poets. So it's kind of a. Quite an interfaith body of, of sacred text and it's meant to be sung. And that, that, you know, if you walk into a Sikh gurdwara, the, the main thing that's happening is, is music.
So this is rooted in, in, in, in my community and in, in, in, in our spiritual practice. And and I've, I've been on a journey of kind of Developing a new relationship with it through writing my own compositions with, you know, instrumentation that you would never hear inside a gurdwara. Right. And so that's been a, an exciting process of, of growth and exploration for me.
Michael Gingerich: What kind of challenges do you have being Sikh that, especially being in, in this country, in the United States, it, you know, not a majority religion or faith and, and certainly anyone who is not in the majority, whatever that is, can often feel as if you know, they, well, that there are challenges to that.
Could you talk about some of those challenges that you've experienced as experienced throughout your life as, as, as you've lived out your, your faith and you know, tried to follow your beliefs as much as possible?
What. What's that been like?
Sonny Singh: Yeah, I mean, it, it is it's been quite a, a a tough road in many ways.
I grew up in, in Charlotte, North Carolina. And my brother and I were the only turban wearing Sikh boys in the whole city in the eighties when we were growing up. And so isolation has been a big part of the experience. And then pretty, you know, overt racism in the form of bullying and harassment as a, you know, pretty daily event.
As a, as a kid, as soon as I started kindergarten you know, kids pulling off my turban on the playground, telling me to go back to my country or whatever that is. You know, just asking really rude and insulting questions. A lot, a lot of teasing, you know, which, which, Still happens to, you know, it's still a, a, a, a really horrible problem in, in schools today.
Not only for the Sikh community, but for for many other marginalized marginalized communities. And in many ways a lot of that sort of racist harassment and, and bullying continued as an, as an adult. I was already a young adult when, when 9/ 11 happened. I was 21 years old, and and, and certainly, you know, experiencing racism was nothing new for me at that point.
But it, it re, it reached a, certainly a heightened Sense of intensity a heightened intensity of and frequency of of racism in the form primarily of of harassment. But sometimes threats and, and, and sometimes physical altercations including someone pulling my turban off on, on the New York City subway when I was in my twenties.
So yeah, I mean that, that's, that is I think, a part of life for for. All turban wearing six in, in the United States and probably in most dias pora communities. And, and the irony is like Sikhs face a, a whole lot of a whole lot of discrimination and marginalization in India as well as a, as a minority religion and a historically oppressed minority religion in India.
Even, even right now, there's, there's a lot of A lot of state repression happening against Sikhs in, in Northern India. So you know, we're a community where where oppression and suffering is, is, is nothing new unfortunately. And And that's, that shaped my life in, in profound ways. I, I, I don't know that I would've, you know, become the activist and organizer and, and educator that I am today without those lived experiences.
Right. Because through, through those lived experiences I eventually was able to start connecting that to the, the experiences of dehumanization and marginalization that other communities were also experiencing. Right. And seeing sort of a common, a common enemy of systemic oppression and, and seeing these these things as, as intertwined.
So yeah. And, and it, it carries on. We, we make, we make progress as well, right? But, but you know, Racism is still very insidious in, in our society. White supremacy runs, runs really deep. And for someone with brown skin, a, a turban and a beard that, you know, like walking down the street can be a, a, a, a difficult thing sometimes.
Tom Kaden: Thank you for your vulnerability and just willingness to share all that. I mean, it just, it pains us deeply. We talk about this in our listening training, that empathy is. It's impossible for us to feel exactly what you felt, but we can certainly feel something and we feel deeply for you. We just honestly can't even imagine what that must have been like growing up.
And we are so proud of you for the ways that you are rising above all of that, to redeem it for good and channeling all that energy for, for positivity in the world. It's it's really impressive. So this question we were looking forward to asking because I think it would be really helpful for marginalized communities in particular.
As a person who is part of the listening community, how do you listen to those who might attack and harass you, who do not respect and, and value your faith or even your personhood?
Sonny Singh: Yeah. It's a, that, that's one that I definitely grapple with. And I, I don't think I have a very Clear answer too, but you know, it kind of comes back to the conversation we were having before around the divine being and all.
And, and how do we move towards seeing the divine in our enemies or the divine in those who might harm us who might Be perpetuating the oppression that, that we believe must must end because of the divine is an all then the divine is also in, in them. Right? And, and that's, and that's, that's a difficult thing to, to really hold at all, at all times.
So that, that's, that's very much a, a work in progress for me. And I mean, I, I can share that like. There's been moments in, in, in my life where where there's been like mini, mini breakthroughs, right? Of you know, if, if, if someone harasses me or threatens me when I'm walking down the street, there's a lot of considerations that are running through my head.
First and foremost, it's safety, depending on who's making the comment or the, or the threat. Another thing is, you know, Their identities, right? Are they, are they white? Are they, are they black? Are they coming from another immigrant community? Right? Because there's just so many layers of how our, how our various communities have been, been pitted against each other.
And I, and I will say that I've had, I've had a few moments in, in the last decade or so where Where there's been a little bit of progress that's happened through through these sort of negative interactions. And I can think about one one that's popping into my mind right now, in part because I'm, I'm speaking at a middle school tomorrow morning to, to 300 300 young people.
And I did something like this many, many years ago at a, I think it was an elementary school in, in the Bronx here, here in New York. And As soon as I walked in the door within, within a couple of minutes, you know, some kid like yelled Osama or something like that at me. Which 10 years ago, that was a pretty daily thing.
And I saw some of his friends kinda like shush him and, you know, I was, I, it was not a, a very pleasant way to, to walk into this school. I was, you know, feeling a little bit nervous about talking to this many, any, this many elementary school students as it as it was you know, early, early childhood education is not like my comfort zone exactly. I'm used to working with older, young people. And then, so then I do this assembly. Like I, I do this talk workshop for the. The whole school or the whole grade. I can't quite quite remember. I think it was fifth graders. And and that student came up to me afterwards and, and like very sincerely apologized.
And, and I accepted his apology and we had a really positive and, and, and warm conversation. And so to me that that's like, that's one of these reminders that, you know, there's. So much going on with whatever per, like, whoever it is that is, is coming at me like that they have a, they have a backstory and I'm not always gonna be in a position to, to hear it when I'm triggered, when I'm on the defensive, when I'm fearing for my safety.
So I'm not saying I'm that it's always gonna be appropriate for me to ask them a follow up question and try to have a conversation, but especially when it's coming from a young person, especially when it's coming from a young person of color. There. I think I, I think at this point, as an adult who's been living and thinking about these issues for, for a long time, that's not, I'm not like continuously walking around in a state of P T S D at this point in my life.
Like, I think I, I, I do have the capacity to, to engage engage in those conversations and try to hear hear people out in, in those situations when. I'm not worried about my own safety, if, if that makes sense. I, I think there's just so many ways that communities of color have been pitted against each other.
Right. Whereas xenophobia has kind of become a, a tool to just kind of marginalize others when we're marginalized ourselves. Right. To try to like, put ourselves on a slightly higher level than, than some other community. And you know, it, it's like we don't have to. Intellectualize it all, but but, but I do think that divide and conquer kind of mentality has existed in this country as long as settler colonialism has.
Right. So so I do feel feel some responsibility to, to engage in these conversations when when it feels safe too.
Tom Kaden: Yeah. There's so much we could talk about just on that matter alone. I, I know we both have. I've been immersed in religion for much of our, our lives and you know, there's been a lot of conversations just around pacifism and, and our stances on that.
And I've kind of teeter tottered on that issue myself. Not only not always knowing what I believe about that but I know one time that we were being asked about it in a q and a and someone asked, you know, what if somebody broke into your home or something like that, and, I think I responded by saying I would certainly want to defend myself and my my family, and if I caused that person harm in any way I would like to think that I'd be one of the first people to go visit him or her in prison.
Because I want to be able to say that I do see the spark of the divine even after something like that had occurred. But maybe in the moment our emotions would kind of get the, the best of us and we, we might respond in a a less than kind way, which is what we ultimately want to do. But just giving ourselves permission, like that's okay.
You know, that's human.
Sonny Singh: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's a, that's a, yeah, I think it's an important story and, and and, and there's many in, in, in my community and beyond that, you know, that practice, that sort of that vision. And, and I think part of it too is, You know, our society is especially here in the United States is the, the, the sort of legal remedies and, and, and norms when it comes to accountability and so-called criminal justice have nothing to do with seeing the humanity in people who make mistakes. Right. It's quite the opposite. And, and, you know, the, the prison system is one that. That only makes things worse, right? There's like rehabilitation, healing.
All this is not a part of the, the system in, in any way, shape or form. So I'm really inspired by those who are doing who are looking for alternatives, right? And really like focusing on restorative justice. And I think that that is a practice that's very in line with Sikh philosophy and many other spiritual philosophies of, of the divine being in all.
So that when harm is, harm is created, when mistakes are made there is a path to, to approaching, to holding people accountable in a way that really continues to honor their, their humanity and, and their divinity, right? The, the divine that is, that is in inside them. And I, I think our criminal justice system kind of does the, does the opposite of that.
It, it, it turns human beings into, into disposable disposable beings, right? And that, and that only exacerbates all these problems in our society, right? When, when we dispose of people, when when they make mistakes.
Michael Gingerich: I wanna thank you for sharing the story of that young boy who at first, kind of lashed out at you by calling you a name, and then the story of him coming to understand that what he said was not good and it was not right.
And, and giving you a sincere apology, and then you sincerely accepting that and having a continuing conversation with him, listening to him, listening to one another. That is a story of redemption and we, we love to hear that. And we're grateful that that awkward and difficult and even painful moment could be turned into something better.
And something that showed a different way. In order to relate to and react to one another. And so, thanks. I appreciate hearing that. I'd like to just now ask you something else and, you know, to kind of change the, the, the, the tone a bit away from the challenges and talk about the joys. What, what kind of joys have you experienced in the work that you do?
Your, your, your social justice education and training work? Things that have over the years, just you, you've seen some, some healing taking place. You've seen movement for the better things, more positive. Tell us what you can about that.
Sonny Singh: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't think I'd be able to do it if there wasn't a lot of joy in it.
I, I really believe that honest conversation, facilitated conversation about all these horrible things in our society racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia right. Economic inequality. I think, I think I. A lot of change begins with these conversations. And, and, and I know at firsthand, because that's how my life began to transform being on the sort of other end of of these kinds of conversations, being involved in workshops as a young person.
And and, and so I see it all the time. I mean, I think it's rare that I facilitate a workshop or a training where there's not a, a good amount of joy in it and, and sort of witnessing real transformation, you know, witnessing transformation in, in real time, right. Aha moments that, that folks are having.
I, I another just sort of example that pops into my mind. I, I helped to run this Sort of political education program for college students in New York City a couple of times a year a couple times a year that focuses on cities and social justice. And so I sort of planned this two week program in New York City where college students from around the country are, are learning about a lot of the inequality in New York City and, and social movements here.
And just like in that two week period, seeing where some of these students are at and then seeing where they're at after, after two weeks of kind of rigorous exploration guided facilitation community building, it's, I mean, it, it, it, it's always like sure to make me feel like, okay, I'm on the right path here.
Like, I'm spending, I'm, I'm using my time in, in ways that are really helpful. Right. In terms of You know, helping, helping others understand what we're up against. Not only what we're up against, but, but then. What solutions can we draw inspiration from? Right? Like in that program that I was talking about, a big part of what we do is visit with local organizations grassroots organizing groups, community-based organizations that are, that are doing the real work, the day-to-day based building the day-to-day advocacy work.
Bringing folks together in, in their neighborhoods and, and. And, and to see that impact on, on students is, is super, super powerful. So yeah, I mean, I, I think I do the work that I do as much, as much as for myself as I do for, for others because I need it just to stay hopeful as, as well. And it definitely it definitely at its best does that.
Tom Kaden: So we have this six module training, compassionate Listening Training program that we lead groups and organizations through. And one of our modules is built around creating safe spaces for people. And we would just like to know where do you find safe spaces to be you, to be heard, to be accepted, and and respected for who you are.
Sonny Singh: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I feel, I feel very at home in, in, in Brooklyn. And I'm grateful to have a, a big community here where I feel like I can fully, fully be myself and thrive. But honestly, I think the, I think the, the. Maybe the, the place where I feel the most at home and the most myself, is performing music.
You know, when I'm in a, in a musical zone, there, there's something obviously that is, is very spiritual about it, regardless of whether there's lyrics or not. And and I think that is that is a place where I, where I really do, where I really do feel at home you know, in, in that Sort of indescribable space of communication that happens between musicians on a, on a stage and between musician and, and audience.
I think that's a place where I, where I thrive and I, and I feel I feel very at home.
Michael Gingerich: In your music what or who inspired you to be the musician you are today? What what led to this passion that you have and the, this artistic expression that is so important to you?
Sonny Singh: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have no musicians in my family, but, but as I was saying, you know, music plays a pretty central role in the Sikh community.
So, you know, I do think some of it certainly came from within our community's practices. 'cause music is so central. So I was exposed to playing music before I ever picked up the trumpet. I started playing the trumpet in the fifth grade and, and school band just sort of arbitrarily and I think over time, It just became such a critical way for me to kind of process the world.
You know, even though in in school it was just like reading, reading sheet music mostly western classical sheet music but it still just provided this channel to kind of process emotions and, and feelings. And then, you know, of course I was impacted deeply by the music that I was, that I was listening to as a, as a child and as a, as a teenager, I.
Listening to a lot of the stuff that was popular in the nineties Pearl Jam, Nirvana, et cetera. And and eventually began to, began to explore my own voice as a, as someone who, who writes music and creates music. As I, as I grew older, as a teenager and, and into my twenties. And it's a, and it's a constant state of State of growth.
You know, I, I only released my first, you know, I've, I've been touring, been a part of a lot of different bands for almost a couple decades now, but only released my first solo album last year. Right. So, in many ways I feel like I'm just, just beginning.
Tom Kaden: What would you like others to who, who listen to your music, to walk away from having gained.
Sonny Singh: Yeah, well, the, the name of my record and I think in many ways the mission statement of, of this new musical project is this idea called which is an idea and practice in the s community of ever rising spirits or sort of radical, eternal optimism. And I, and I think that's precisely what I hope folks walk away with.
And, and what I mean by eternal optimism and what we mean in the Sikh community is not that. We always have to be happy or we have to ignore pain and suffering. Not, not that at all, but that but that this practice, Chardi Kala, sort of gives us the fortitude to, to wake up another day and, and to fight another day for, for what's right, right.
To, to continue on in our struggles with our heads had held up high for, for justice and liberation. And so that's ultimately what I hope my music People feel and, and, and inspires people to act in, in that manner.
Michael Gingerich: So what was it like producing, creating your own record? Was it, how hard was that?
How exhilarating was it? How, how frightening is it to put something out there for the world to hear?
Sonny Singh: All of those things. All those things, yeah.
Michael Gingerich: So tell us, tell us about all those things and, and, and actually we're, we're really proud of you for that and excited for you and just want to hear more about what it, what it's been like.
Sonny Singh: Thanks. Yeah. It was definitely one of the hardest things that I've, that I've ever done. It took a very long time. And then the, the pandemic kind of slowed things down as well because I started recording it just before. In 2019, I started recording, recording it and then, and then finished it up kind of late in 2021 and then released it released it last year.
Yeah, I mean, there it was, you know, it's so-called solo album, but in, in many ways that's a, that's a misnomer because there was dozens of collaborators including the producer, co-producer Will Dog Aber is a dear friend of mine who lives in LA and has won multiple Grammys and founded the pretty legendary band Ozo Motley out there.
That's been deeply inspiring to me. And so yeah, it's unlike, unlike anything I've done before in terms of Just the, the process and the thoroughness of, of it all. But I'm, I'm really proud of it in, in the end. And yeah, and, and, you know, and it's been nearly a, I think we're coming up next week on a, on a year since the album came out, so it's been yeah, for sure.
Plenty of insecurity, imposter syndrome in, in doing something like this. But a lot of moments of of feeling really seen and, and people reaching out. Whether it's after hearing the album or whether it's after a show that I'm, 'cause I play the music live as well. And, and sort of reflecting back to me.
What my intention was, you know, without me saying anything. And, and that just kind of blows my mind every time. There's been so many, so, so many moments of that where I'm like, oh, people get it. And you know, there's so, like the music industry is a very difficult place to make a living. Very difficult place to to launch something new these days. And, but those, those individuals that reflect that back to me that it makes it, that totally makes it all makes it all worth it. Yeah, and there's been, you know, like coming up on this year, one year I. Anniversary of the album. There's been some pretty surreal things that have gone down in the last week, which was I was invited to play at the White House a couple of days ago on, on Monday.
And that happened, met met the president. So that was very surreal. And, and last week I was invited and these things were connected to each other, but, but separate people, organizing them last week. I played at this White House Forum on Asian Americans, native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders. That Vice President Kamala Harris was at, was sort of the headline speaker.
I. So, yeah, so feeling, feeling it, it's, it's not that I need need that sort of approval, but it, it it does feel, it does feel significant to, to be invited into, to space. I love, love how you just dropped that. Like, it's very nonchalant. I just, not just at the White House a few days ago playing for the president, the vice president.
Yeah. It was surreal. It was, it was, it was very surreal. Yeah. Hmm.
Tom Kaden: Well, we heard that you have an upcoming film coming out, is that right?
Sonny Singh: Yeah. Well, I'm in a, I'm in a film that is, is coming out, yes.
Tom Kaden: Okay. Tell us more about this film and, and what you hope the message will be conveyed through it.
Sonny Singh: Yeah, so it's a feature length documentary called From Here and the director, Christina Antonakos Wallace, who's now a dear friend of mine Documented my life and three other children of immigrants in New York City and Berlin for over a decade. So it's kind of an epic journey coming of age for, for many of us.
I think probably for me it was like going from my mid twenties to late thirties or something like that, or like late twenties to late thirties. And And the sort of theme that weaves our stories together is the ways in which we sort of redefine what it means to belong you know, as an American or as a a German.
And and, and sort of how we resist notions of nationalism and, and xenophobia and and racism through our, our art and activism. So she documents sort of my trajectory as a musician as well as some of my activism and organizing work. And it's really, really beautifully done. The other protagonists in the film are an undocumented Of Bolivian descent in Queens, New York and then a Roma person in Berlin and a Vietnamese German person in, in Berlin.
And so to see these four stories kind of told together and interweaving is just, it's super unique. And then to also see how I think in the US we often are, are very sort of American exceptionalism and we think everything is about us. And to see this sort of transnational telling of, of, of the story, of migration and of of, of, you know, xenophobia rising nationalism I think is super, super powerful.
And the, the film was done right as the pandemic started, that's when the premiere was March, 2020. And so it's been a, it's been a kind of a tough couple years of film festival, like virtual film festivals and, and stuff like that. But the very exciting and big news is that the film will be having its broadcast premiere.
On, on P B Ss on June 1st. And so p b s stations across the United States, I think 27, 28 different P B S stations will be playing it, and it'll also be available to stream for six months on PBS's website. So so pretty exciting.
Michael Gingerich: That's very exciting that, that's tremendous.
Congratulations. We cannot wait to see that, to view it. And to hear more of your story throughout, throughout your life. And we'll, we'll definitely promote it too with this episode. So that's, that's really, that's really very exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be up your alley. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's a great, this is a great way to end actually.
With this good, with this great news was first of all your revelation about the the White House and then, and then about, about this movie premier. And you, you're doing some incredible and exciting things and we are very proud to know you, to have met you and to have shared time with you earlier this year person, but also to share this time today.
It really means a lot to us and we value tremendously the work that you're doing and your social justice values and how it all we know works to make this world a better place.
Thank you so much.
Sonny Singh: Thank you so much. Thank you. It's an honor to be a part of this conversation and really appreciate everything you all are doing.
Thank you.
Michael Gingerich: Sonny really surprised us by the announcement that he had just performed at the White House with the president and the vice president of the United States. We had, we had no idea, and he kind of dropped that as you heard, kind of very casually and nonchalantly as if No big deal. We know it was a big deal.
It is a big deal for him and we're really again, proud that he was invited, that he got to do that. And to share the music that, and the passion that he loves so much. So we congratulate him on that. And also on the film we knew about the film, but we didn't know that it was something that had you know, been a long, many, many years coming and had he had been followed as he grew and as he matured you know, into the person he is today.
And that's just pretty, pretty. Pretty neat too. So we definitely proud of the work that he's doing and the experiences and opportunities that he's had.
Tom Kaden: We began this conversation by just learning a little bit more about the Sikh faith, and one of the things that he highlighted early on was just that Sikh means learner, lifelong learner, and we pride ourselves on being lifelong learners as well.
And we hope that you are too. That's why you tune in to our program consistently, because we are all, all here to learn together to be our best selves. I. And to have the greatest impact that we can have upon the world. So thanks for being with us today. We are always grateful that you join us in the someone's healthy community.
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So until we listen again.
